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Old 10.12.2012, 01:11   #1
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Default Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

Preiau un articol recent de-al lui Richard Stallman. Daca n-ar fi fost unul dintre "tăticii" Open Source care sa fi spus asta, as fi zis ca mananca rahat, da' asa ... Nu suna bine deloc ! Din pacate nu stau foarte bine cu timpul liber ca sa instalez un Ubuntu sa vad despre ce-i vorba, dar ma indoiesc ca Stallman ar minti ...
In fine, cateva pasaje sunt ingrijoaratoare:
Quote:
When the user searches her own local files for a string using the Ubuntu desktop, Ubuntu sends that string to one of Canonical's servers. (Canonical is the company that develops Ubuntu.)
This is just like the first surveillance practice I learned about in Windows.
...
Ubuntu uses the information about searches to show the user ads to buy various things from Amazon.
dar mai ales:
Quote:
If you ever recommend or redistribute GNU/Linux, please remove Ubuntu from the distros you recommend or redistribute.
Iacata si articolul intreg; sursa aici:

Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

Posted by Richard Stallman at Dec 07, 2012 01:53 AM | Permalink

One of the major advantages of free software is that the community protects users from malicious software. Now Ubuntu GNU/Linux has become a counterexample. What should we do?


Proprietary software is associated with malicious treatment of the user: surveillance code, digital handcuffs (DRM or Digital Restrictions Management) to restrict users, and back doors that can do nasty things under remote control. Programs that do any of these things are malware and should be treated as such. Widely used examples include Windows, the iThings, and the Amazon "Kindle" product for virtual book burning, which do all three; Macintosh and the Playstation III which impose DRM; most portable phones, which do spying and have back doors; Adobe Flash Player, which does spying and enforces DRM; and plenty of apps for iThings and Android, which are guilty of one or more of these nasty practices.


Free software gives users a chance to protect themselves from malicious software behaviors. Even better, usually the community protects everyone, and most users don't have to move a muscle. Here's how.


Once in a while, users who know programming find that a free program has malicious code. Generally the next thing they do is release a corrected version of the program; with the four freedoms that define free software (see http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html), they are free to do this. This is called a "fork" of the program. Soon the community switches to the corrected fork, and the malicious version is rejected. The prospect of ignominious rejection is not very tempting; thus, most of the time, even those who are not stopped by their consciences and social pressure refrain from putting malfeatures in free software.


But not always. Ubuntu, a widely used and influential GNU/Linux distribution, has installed surveillance code. When the user searches her own local files for a string using the Ubuntu desktop, Ubuntu sends that string to one of Canonical's servers. (Canonical is the company that develops Ubuntu.)


This is just like the first surveillance practice I learned about in Windows. My late friend Fravia told me that when he searched for a string in the files of his Windows system, it sent a packet to some server, which was detected by his firewall. Given that first example I paid attention and learned about the propensity of "reputable" proprietary software to be malware. Perhaps it is no coincidence that Ubuntu sends the same information.


Ubuntu uses the information about searches to show the user ads to buy various things from Amazon. Amazon commits many wrongs (see http://stallman.org/amazon.html); by promoting Amazon, Canonical contributes to them. However, the ads are not the core of the problem. The main issue is the spying. Canonical says it does not tell Amazon who searched for what. However, it is just as bad for Canonical to collect your personal information as it would have been for Amazon to collect it.


People will certainly make a modified version of Ubuntu without this surveillance. In fact, several GNU/Linux distros are modified versions of Ubuntu. When those update to the latest Ubuntu as a base, I expect they will remove this. Canonical surely expects that too.


Most free software developers would abandon such a plan given the prospect of a mass switch to someone else's corrected version. But Canonical has not abandoned the Ubuntu spyware. Perhaps Canonical figures that the name "Ubuntu" has so much momentum and influence that it can avoid the usual consequences and get away with surveillance.


Canonical says this feature searches the Internet in other ways. Depending on the details, that might or might not make the problem bigger, but not smaller.


Ubuntu allows users to switch the surveillance off. Clearly Canonical thinks that many Ubuntu users will leave this setting in the default state (on). And many may do so, because it doesn't occur to them to try to do anything about it. Thus, the existence of that switch does not make the surveillance feature ok.


Even if it were disabled by default, the feature would still be dangerous: "opt in, once and for all" for a risky practice, where the risk varies depending on details, invites carelessness. To protect users' privacy, systems should make prudence easy: when a local search program has a network search feature, it should be up to the user to choose network search explicitly each time. This is easy: all it takes is to have separate buttons for network searches and local searches, as earlier versions of Ubuntu did. A network search feature should also inform the user clearly and concretely about who will get what personal information of hers, if and when she uses the feature.


If a sufficient part of our community's opinion leaders view this issue in personal terms only, if they switch the surveillance off for themselves and continue to promote Ubuntu, Canonical might get away with it. That would be a great loss to the free software community.


We who present free software as a defense against malware do not say it is a perfect defense. No perfect defense is known. We don't say the community will deter malware without fail. Thus, strictly speaking, the Ubuntu spyware example doesn't mean we have to eat our words.


But there's more at stake here than whether some of us have to eat some words. What's at stake is whether our community can effectively use the argument based on proprietary spyware. If we can only say, "free software won't spy on you, unless it's Ubuntu," that's much less powerful than saying, "free software won't spy on you."


It behooves us to give Canonical whatever rebuff is needed to make it stop this. Any excuse Canonical offers is inadequate; even if it used all the money it gets from Amazon to develop free software, that can hardly overcome what free software will lose if it ceases to offer an effective way to avoid abuse of the users.


If you ever recommend or redistribute GNU/Linux, please remove Ubuntu from the distros you recommend or redistribute. If its practice of installing and recommending nonfree software didn't convince you to stop, let this convince you. In your install fests, in your Software Freedom Day events, in your FLISOL events, don't install or recommend Ubuntu. Instead, tell people that Ubuntu is shunned for spying.


While you're at it, you can also tell them that Ubuntu contains nonfree programs and suggests other nonfree programs. (See http://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html.) That will counteract the other form of negative influence that Ubuntu exerts in the free software community: legitimizing nonfree software.


Copyright 2012 Richard Stallman

Released under the Creative Commons Attribution Noderivatives 3.0 license
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Old 10.12.2012, 10:01   #2
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Default Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

Foarte interesant, cred ca o sa caut RED ALERT firewire pt windows si sa-l instalez azi


Toate distro deviate din UBUNTU fac acest lucru???? Ca asta nu am intales prea bine.

Ca de exemplu ZorinOS si Mint14 sunt incluse in chesti asta??
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Old 10.12.2012, 11:31   #3
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Default Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

GNU/Linux Mint nu este dezvoltat de Canonical, nici Kubuntu și nici Lubuntu (deși în cazul ăsta nu sunt 100% sigur. Dacă vrei o distribuție ”sigură” construiește-ți singur una, cu ajutorul LFS (Linux From Scatch).
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Old 10.12.2012, 12:03   #4
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Default Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

Eh, in felul asta nu ajungi nicaieri. Daca e sa mergem cu paranoia pana la capat, la fel de bine poti sa suspectezi ca gcc genereaza cod care contine spyware. Sau ca driverul closed-source de la nividia trimite poze cu tine la CIA. Putem sa mergem asa pana la nivel hardware Cand e vorba de privacy, trebuie sa nu ai prea multa incredere in tehnologie.
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Old 10.12.2012, 13:10   #5
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Default Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

Nu o sa ma apuc acuma sa ma fac programator , desi sa/ti faci singur un OS cum poftesti tu ar fi super ideea.

Acuma sunt pe ZorinOS 6.1 de pe stick si se misca destul de bine, deci nu ma apuc eu acuma sa fac minuni dar totusi sa gasesti un OS super stabil si sigur in ziua de azi e greu.

Momentan cel mai sigur OS pe net ramane Whonix 0.45. Dar asta e parerea mea.Alti au alte pareri.
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Old 10.12.2012, 13:12   #6
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Default Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

sdw, aici nu-i vorba de suspectat, ci de ceva dovedit.
Neplacut e faptul ca search-ul respectiv e facut (by default) in paralel atat pe mediile de stocare atasate PC-ului tau, cat si pe Amazon. Ori, aici distinctia e clara: una e sa caut un fisier la mine in PC, alta e sa il caut online (in al doilea caz nu-mi pun problema de "privacy" atata vreme cat il caut pe Amazon, Google, etc ...).
Cred ca o varianta cinstita ar fi fost ca la configurarea utilitarului de search (la prima rulare ?) sa intrebe in mod cat se poate de vizibil daca userul e de acord cu search in paralel si pe Amazon (sunt multe programe nu doar in linux care intreaba userul daca e de acord sau nu cu colectarea de "anonymous statistics"). A lasa posibilitatea de a da "disable" la asa ceva, insa bine ascunsa prin nu stiu ce meniuri de configurare nu mi se pare o practica OK, mai ales daca tinem cont de "filozofia" Linux/*BSD/etc ... bazate pe Open Source ("free as in free speech, not free beer", ca sa-l mai citez o data pe Stallman).

A suspecta gcc sau driverul de nVidia fara a avea nicio dovada e paranoia, fara dubiu. Dar ce te faci daca apar dovezi ca un anumit soft se comporta tipic pentru un spyware ? Atunci nu mai e paranoia, e de-a dreptul enervant !

Flashboy, se pare ca acuzatiile aduse de Stallman sunt legate de distributia Ubuntu 12.10.
Persoane din staff-ul Canonical vad ca incearca sa se apere; continuarea aici:
http://www.zdnet.com/free-software-f...re-7000008516/

Later edit: din continutul link-ului postat mai sus, imi "place" cum suna:
Quote:
Jono Bacon, Canonical's community manager begs to differ. While not speaking officially for Canonical, Bacon flatly stated, "This is FUD."
...
"The challenge of course is that privacy is a deeply personal thing and the way in which you define your privacy expectations will likely radically differ from each of your friends, and vice-versa."
Fraza asta din urma suna mult prea "ŕ la Billy" pentru a fi acceptata in lumea Open Source... Privacy e privacy; e ori alba ori neagra; nu poti defini "nuante de gri" pentru date private (date foarte private sau date private dar mai publice ).
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Last edited by bogdan; 10.12.2012 at 13:18.
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Old 10.12.2012, 13:20   #7
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Default Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

Nu poti sa-ti faci singur un OS. Daca te apuci de la zero, inclusiv sa scrii compilatorul si kernelul, o sa-ti ia vreo 2000 de ani. Daca decizi sa folosesti un compilator, un kernel si aplicatii facute de altii, deja nu mai e OS-ul tau si nu poti sa ai incredere in el 100%.
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Old 10.12.2012, 13:21   #8
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Default Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

ZorinOS e tot un distro bazat pe LUBUNTU, dar creiat de alta echipa, care pt unele distributi mai complete trebuie sa faci donati pt a le putea avea.

De asta intreb. Dar daca stau sa ma gandesc putin, BROWSERUL este problema in cea ce priveste securitatea OS/lui.
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Old 10.12.2012, 13:27   #9
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Default Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdan View Post
sdw, aici nu-i vorba de suspectat, ci de ceva dovedit.
De acord, eu ma refeream la ce a zis AnbuBlack legat de LFS.

Legat de cazul in sine, FUD-ul poate fi dovedit extrem de simplu, pornesti tcpdump si vezi traficul pe retea. Daca e adevarat ce spune Stallman, Canonical va avea de suferit pe parte de imagine, si nu cred ca va mai indrazni sa faca asa ceva. Daca nu e adevarat, Stallman nu va pati nimic, oricum lumea il stie de prapastios
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Old 10.12.2012, 13:33   #10
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Default Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

Linux from scratch e o posibilitate de a-ti crea tu o distributie. Dar, nu e ceva la indemana oricui; iti trebuie timp si cunostiinte destul de solide in ceea ce priveste "anatomia" unui sistem Linux.

Derivatele de Ubuntu nu le-as banui ca ar contine spyware livrate "la pachet"; in cazul de fata acuzele erau aduse pentru un utilitar de cautare integrat in interfata Ubuntu 12.10 numit:
Quote:
dash [Ubuntu's core search interface]
sursa aici
Asadar ... daca derivatele de Ubuntu pe care le folosesti nu contin utilitarul cu pricina, nu le-as banui ca fac tampenii fara a avea o dovada.
Cum poti testa ? Simplu, cum a testat si Stallman:
Quote:
So, if you searched for say "Hobbit." you'd get results from both your PC and Amazon.
Browserul nu e o aplicatie care sa garanteze totdeauna privacy. Daca folosesti un motor de cautare public evident ca nu e vorba de trafic de date private. Daca insa folosesti sesiune securizata pentru a accesa contul tau bancar, atunci da, e 100% privacy (garantata de conexiunea securizata + banca la care te conectezi; evident banca nu face publice date legate de tine sau de contul tau).
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Old 10.12.2012, 13:47   #11
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Default Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdw View Post
Daca nu e adevarat, Stallman nu va pati nimic, oricum lumea il stie de prapastios
Ha ha ha ha ha !!! Excelent !!!
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Old 10.12.2012, 14:19   #12
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Default Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

Bogdan---- pe CENTOS ai asa probleme????
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Old 10.12.2012, 18:27   #13
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Default Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

Flashboy, pe CentOS n-am avut de-a face niciodata cu spyware venite "la pachet" cu distributia. Fiind totusi o clona dupa o distributie enterprise (RHEL) ar fi extrem de nasol pentru relatiile comerciale ale RedHat cu clientii daca s-ar dovedi ca umbla cu spyware... Imagineaza-ti ce-ar fi daca s-ar prinde cineva ca e spionat un server pentru care a cumparat licenta de RHEL... Ar sari rau de tot in sus; asa ceva nu se accepta in lumea Open Source (chiar daca e vorba de o distributie cu licenta gratuita sau contra cost). Se accepta insa ... la M$ unde dai banii pe o windoaza de server si Billy isi baga nasu' in tot ce ai pe-acolo Cica sa nu folosesti soft piratat

In concluzie: nu pretind nici pe departe ca CentOS/RHEL ar fi distributia perfecta d.p.d.v securitate si privacy, dar pana acum n-a fost niciun scandal legat de asa ceva.

Exista totusi un pret platit pentru asta: CentOS/RHEL e o distributie orientata spre servers/workstations, care pune accent pe stabilitate si securitate, mai putin pe ultimele noutati. Asadar vei avea un OS robust si stabil, dar nu vei avea acces chiar la ultimele versiuni ale multor programe. Ubuntu e o distributie care echilibreaza bine stabilitatea cu noutatile.
In fine, daca vrei un OS in care sa-ti faci treaba de zi cu zi si de care sa fii sigur ca nu te lasa la greu (robust, stabil, optimizat), CentOS e o optiune excelenta (ca workstation). Daca insa vrei sa testezi ultimele versiuni ale nu stiu caror aplicatii, atunci ai de ales intre Ubuntu si Fedora. Cum Fedora e doar un teren de test pentru tot ce e mai nou in materie de linux (nu insa prea stabil...), Ubuntu ramanea varianta cea mai potrivita; başca faptul ca-i una dintre cele mai "user friendly" distributii (nu te face sa simti prea greu la inceput povara trecerii de la windoaza la un OS bazat in principal pe linie de comanda ).

Acu' probabil ca figura asta cu spyware a fost introdusa in Ubuntuiu 12.10 tocmai pentru userii care migreaza de pe windoaza la linux: si-asa erau obisnuiti cu spyware, sa nu-i ia durerea de cap daca in linux nu mai au parte brusc de asa ceva
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Old 10.12.2012, 18:51   #14
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Default Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

Quote:
Acu' probabil ca figura asta cu spyware a fost introdusa in Ubuntuiu 12.10 tocmai pentru userii care migreaza de pe windoaza la linux: si-asa erau obisnuiti cu spyware, sa nu-i ia durerea de cap daca in linux nu mai au parte brusc de asa ceva
doar ata am de raspuns.
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Old 10.12.2012, 20:18   #15
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Default Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

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Cum Fedora e doar un teren de test pentru tot ce e mai nou in materie de linux (nu insa prea stabil...)
Sper ca prin "nu prea stabil" te referi la faptul ca schimba versiunile majore de programe si API-uri fara sa-si bata capul cu backward-compatibility. Daca te referi ca e "crapacios", te contrazic. E unul din cele mai robuste distro-uri pe care le-am folosit. Laptop-ul meu nu necesita restart decat cand se face upgrade la kernel. Alfel, doar suspend/resume, suspend/resume, ..., fara absolut nici un crash.
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Old 10.12.2012, 20:44   #16
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Default Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

Recunosc ca n-am mai instalat Fedora de tare mult vreme; ultima versiune pe care am lucrat efectiv a fost FC4 (stiu, e antica ...). De rest, am butonat foarte putin pe FC8. La FC4 am mai avut ceva crash-uri asadar de-aici am ramas cu ideea ca nu e chiar stabila.
Daca acu' nu mai da din cand in cand cate-un crash, e excelent ! Multzam de info, ramasesem cam "intepenit" in istorie !

Totusi, ce nu-mi place la FC e faptul ca se succed prea repede versiunile, asadar ar trebui sa reinstalez + configurez cateva sisteme pe care lucrez (la munca + acasa) destul de des. Si cum reinstall-urile au fost motivul pentru care am lasat acu' multa vreme windoaza in urma... nici ca-mi trebuie altceva decat un CentOS (release cycle suficient de mare; updates multi ani, etc ... Nu prea am nevoie de ultimele noutati software).
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Old 10.12.2012, 21:39   #17
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Default Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

Și eu eram la fel de sceptic, Bogdan, după ultimele teste pe care le-am avut cu RH9/FC1-4, dar am rămas foarte surprins de FC17, și într-adevăr cum zice și sdw, singurul lucru care necesită restart este update-ul de kernel. Mi se pare airea zicala că dacă este mai ”bleeding edge”, nu este stabilă distribuția sau mai puțin sigură ( și când zic asta chiar nu sunt un fan RH); cui îi place să aibă ultimele versiuni software, mi se pare distribuția potrivită. Eu și în FreeBSD stau pe Stable și am ultimele versiuni ale programelor instalate din porturi, Current mă depășește .
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Old 10.12.2012, 23:01   #18
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Default Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

OK gat o sa ma rezum la un 3D OS si sa ma joc cu el cum se joaca tipul din video >

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Old 11.12.2012, 18:18   #19
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Default Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

E dragut, dar e cam "eye-candy" care consuma cu siguranta destul de multe resurse, mai ales de GPU. Si cum taman de-asta nu-mi place Aero ... Prefer ceva "invechit" cu desktop 2D la care toata puterea de accelerare a GPU sa intre intr-un joc sau eventual un film HD. Sa consumi resurse de calcul doar ca sa rulezi o interfata grafica as zice ca-i inutil ... Prefer sa mearga spre aplicatii toata puterea de calcul, nu spre rularea interfetei.
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Old 11.12.2012, 21:01   #20
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Default Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

Azi instalai ZorinOS si acuma va scriu de pe el.

Chestia e ca daca merg in "Software Center" , este acelasi de la UBUNTU, si la sectia "Books & Magazine" se vede cel mai clar o gramada cu anunturi despre carti si reviste de pe Amazon.com .

Cred ca anuntul e valabil, toate revistele sau cartile sunt cu bani si cred ca duc la tot felul de magazine si cum e Amazon.

Deci stirea nu e o aberatie, ei traiesc di promovari de produse ale unor magazine online.
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